Charlie Higson talks to Inside History about his new podcast
Inside History caught up with Charlie Higson as he told us more about his new podcast dedicated to the History of the Monarchy.
(This article appears in our latest issue of Inside History which is available from our online store and Magzter)
Charlie Higson is on a personal historical mission. He is a self-confessed “fan” of history and he is using this to help him on his journey to learn more about the Kings and Queens of England whilst using a rather famous rhyme that schoolchildren across the UK have used in order to help them remember the linage of the Royals.
The rhyme goes a little something like this:
“Willie, Willie, Harry, Steve, Harry, Dick, John, Harry Three, Edward One, Two, Three, Dick Two, Henry Four, Five, Six, then who? Edward Four, Five, Dick the Bad, Harry’s twain and Ned, the lad. Mary, Lizzie, James the Vain, Charlie, Charlie, James again. William and Mary, Anne o'Gloria, Four Georges, William and Victoria. Edward Seven, Georgie Five, Edward, George and Liz.
There are of course many variants to this popular rhyme but this is the one that I was taught and remember fondly.
Whilst Charlie might be a “fan” of history, it would be fair to say that he has gathered many fans along the way during his rather varied career. For those around my age, Higson will be remembered best during his time on “The Fast Show” where he brought characters such as Swiss Tony to life with his car dealing character who always stated that selling a car “is like making love to a beautiful woman.” Younger fans will have read his books about a young James Bond whilst some will have witnessed the excellent “Histrionics” show at the annual Chalke Valley History Festival where tickets are hard to come by.
Now he has turned his attention to the world of podcasts with his new venture, Willy, Willy, Harry, Stee...
I began our chat thinking about Charlie as a “fan” of history. Did his love of history come from his school days?
“At the time it was just another subject. I mean, I certainly enjoyed it more than geography. I think I responded as I have gone on to become a writer and a storyteller. I responded to the stories. As a child, it was taught as stories like the famous ladybird books. It would draw you in by making it an adventure of those lives of people’s history. And it's interesting that in history circles, the idea of narrative history has come back into fashion. I didn't go on to do history at A level. I was more interested in the arts, I suppose. I did English, Art and Classical Civilization because, I mean, that's quite interesting too.”
Whilst Charlie would go on to have a successful career as an actor and a writer, he has now brought his storytelling to the world of history and along the way he talks to famous historians in order to help him find out on his journey. From the likes of Dan Jones and Helen Caster, Higson has managed to gather as many big names as he can in order to assist him. For a personal journey, it is very impressive.
“That was one of the main reasons I wanted to do it. It was so that I could learn. And I've been really lucky to get some brilliant historians on the podcast. I mean, they've all been brilliant. And I'm able to share what I've learned and then ask them the questions that I wanted to ask coming out of that from an actual expert, which has been fascinating for me, and I hope people listening have been as interested as me. So, in a way, I've made my own Open University course.”
It certainly is a wonderful way to learn from Charlie’s point of view but he is also keen to spread this newfound knowledge to the rest of the world. Yet the world of podcasting is not just confined to our ears. Recently we have seen podcasters move into the world of live events. It was here where I first found out about Willy, Willy, Harry, Stee...when there was a live performance of the podcast at this year’s Chalke Valley History Festival. I began to wonder if this was something that is on the agenda for Charlie further down the line?
“Well, I would like to do that if a sufficient number of people get involved in it. And we have certainly got off to a great start and we're building listeners all the time. It all came about from doing events at Chalke Valley. I've been doing events at the History Festival there for at least ten years. They got me in originally to host the comedy history quiz that they do, but every year I've come up with a historical talk of some sort and one of them I did was called “Death of Kings”, where I looked at how each monarch had died and the podcast sort of grew out of that. I thought to myself, well, people seem to be interested in this. They will happily sit and listen to me drone on for an hour, so maybe I could do more with it. And as I said before, it's as much about me finding out now as the people listening. I would love this to go on and on because I do like doing the talks and the events, so it would be good to do events and do the whole of the English monarchy in an evening.”
In taking on the entire history of the British Throne, Charlie certainly has many varied characters to contend with. Over time, ideas and opinions on the Kings and Queens have been well established. Some positive and negative. It got me thinking about whether a project like this may have changed some of Charlie's presumptions about some of the monarchs he is finding out more about?
“I've gone in with a very superficial knowledge, starting with learning that rhyme at school and then through doing the events at Chalke Valley during the recent lockdown. I thought, well, I'll probably relearn the rhyme, but I'll also find out exactly who these people are. So, you know, I had a very superficial take on all of them, which was probably based on a sort of ladybird books level of in depth knowledge and analysis. And actually, it's been some of the lesser-known Kings that have been really interesting. We all kind of know about Wicked King John, but the likes of me before going into this, I knew nothing about John's son, Henry II. My take on Henry II was that he was a sort of King John: Part Two, a sort of slightly crap sequel to King John. But then I had Sophie Ambler on as the expert, who kind of says, no, there's so much more interesting stuff about Henry II. He had quite a long reign, and there was huge amounts of interest there. He has been very un-rightly forgotten. For me, and I think probably for people listening, it is finding out more about those obscure monarchs. But also, I suppose it's kind of getting a different take on the better-known ones. These three main things we know about them were probably made up. Well, there's quite a lot of that, particularly earlier days, isn't there?”
For a man who has accomplished so much during his varied career I asked him how much he is enjoying taking on a podcast like this when compared to his other projects?
“I'm really loving it. I mean, it's been a huge amount of work. More work than I was expecting, but for me the work has paid off. I think being able to get the historians on, to get their side on everything has been fascinating and I think I am managing to get across a lot of interesting information and help people put all this stuff together. The way I do it is that I don't script it. I essentially study all I can about them and then make notes and note down dates and bullet points and then just try and talk about it. I suppose it's similar to a radio show where the DJ or the host is simply talking to the audience out there. And so it is me talking to whoever my audience is and trying to tell them this stuff, which works well for me. And I think people have responded well to it because they have been enjoying it. That gives you the energy and the enthusiasm to carry on because it's going to be a long trek. I think Henry VI is about the halfway mark and in my recording of it, I'm up to Richard III. So I've got a couple of monarchs to go until I hit the halfway point and already when I look back, I've covered so much ground and I've learned so much. As I say, it's been a lot more work than I thought because I was just originally going to do a fairly superficial sort of thumbnail sketch of each monarch, but as I've dug into it, I've found so much interesting stuff that I wanted to share. It's become more of an undertaking, but as I say, I've loved it and for me, it's an important project. So I’ve got some really interesting ones coming up.”
With Charlie nearly halfway through his epic journey through the monarchs, and clearly enjoying himself on his podcast, there comes the point where the podcast will end when he completes his task. For me, this would be a shame as welcoming Charlie and his team of experts has become essential listening. Thankfully, Charlie has no intention of ending the series as he reveals his plans to continue the series once he reaches Charles III.
“If it's still really popular and if we're still growing in numbers, then one thing I might do is to go back and start again and look at some of the famous characters that I touched on but who weren't monarchs. They are people who would justify having an episode of their own. Someone like William Marshall, who was this great knight who served under four kings and was almost executed by a fifth. There are so many other people like that in history. And a lot of the Queens, for instance, again, I would have touched on with this journey, but a lot of them had really interesting stories in their own right, which I can't fit in at the moment. So that is one possibility to do the other characters in history.”
“I mean, another thing I could do is maybe to go back and do the Anglo-Saxon era in more detail, because I had to do Stonehenge to the Battle of Hastings in one episode, a sort of introductory episode. So to go back and probably look at people like King Arthur, Aethelred the Unready, and Canute. There are a lot more stories to be told. Or I might have had enough history and I'll do something completely different.”
There is still a long way to go for Willy, Willy, Harry, Stee...and so much more to look forward to. In Higson’s more than capable hands, we are still in for an excellent journey as we follow his rather brilliant Open University course.